The Coffee First Podcast with Pastor John

Cameron Church, located in Denver’s Platt Park neighborhood, is a vibrant United Methodist community known for its "Reconciling" ministry. This means they are explicitly inclusive, warmly welcoming the LGBTQ+ community alongside people of all races and backgrounds. The congregation balances a respect for tradition with a progressive approach to faith and social justice. Their mission focuses on spiritual growth and community service, often hosting local events and outreach programs. It is a place where faith meets activism, seeking to create a safe, diverse space for all to worship.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Really it's it's for everybody else, but it's for the basement and I do this really just for me. Oh, okay, alright, good. I just record it so everybody else gets a little bit of a see with it. Okay, perfect. I love it. It's called the Coffee First Podcast. The Coffee First Podcast. I do it like four different creators on here. Okay. So I like to get people with that creative energy to get on here. Got it. Main question I ask every creator is what's your morning routine? Because I feel like that's important. Oh God. Okay. That's what is that. What's your morning routine?

SPEAKER_02 0:50

What's my morning routine? Oh gosh. I probably need a better morning routine as you put me on the spot. My morning routine consists of a lot of groans and moans to get up in the morning. But I do I did for a long time, not until fairly recently, did I change this routine? I used to have a five, five, and five. So I would get up, five minutes of just quiet contemplation. Just okay, I'm awake, I'm aware, my space, feeling the space. Five minutes of intentional writing. Something, some kind of focused writing about anything, whatever comes to mind in that particular moment. And then five minutes of setting the intention for the day. What do I want it to be? What kind of day do I want? Who do I want to be? How do I want to encounter people, experiences, and things? For I don't know, for 10 years I did that as a morning practice. Here recently, that has faded away, I think, as an invitation for me to find another practice. Yeah. So I'm kind of in a I recently moved. So my routine has been disrupted. But maybe for a good thing. So I mean it's like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

That's a nice routine. I might have to start that routine.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

Someone told me, who a woman, August Gold is a uh speaker, kind of, this is not mine, I did not think of it. That she's 555.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Five, just silence. That's nice. Yeah. I'm gonna have to start that. Yeah, that is the hardest part, is getting actually up and awake. That part, so that five minutes of getting up and like being like, all right, I'm up yeah. Yeah, that will help.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

I'm a morning person, so I do like the morning. I spend after that, I try to spend a lot of time with myself, a little bit, you know, as much as possible. Yeah, yeah, to kind of get it moving. But that's a good question. What's my morning routine? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:45

Talk about this space, this church.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

This space, this place, Cameron Church. It's about 130 years old. Sat right here on this corner, the inside. Well, not exactly. If you look outside, there's a little building right next to us over there that looks kind of like a church. That's what originally started. That's the original church. And then they built that's they were there in that church for about two or three years, and then they built this church. It is the longest-running operational Methodist church in South Denver.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

And so it's part of the United Methodist um system of churches. Uh, this particular church is pretty unique. It always has been. The architecture is unique in here. It's called Akron Architecture. It is. That's what it's called. As you notice, like normal churches would have a center aisle down the middle. This doesn't intentionally, it's meant so that everyone can see everyone, and the sight lines are all there because it's meant to be more of a communal kind of space.

SPEAKER_03 3:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

So you can kind of tell that. Uh the acoustics are really live in here, and that was often, you know, for congregational singing, all kinds of things. Started in this building, Swallow Hill Music. I don't know if you know that, but it's not on Broadway. They started here. This has been a church that has long been rooted in arts of some kind. Music, visual arts, all kinds of things. The whole congregation is filled with artists in a way. And that's for the last 40 years, it's been that way. And has just ministers have just come that have kind of fallen in line with that in a way. And so when I got here, we spent a whole year kind of discerning who we were gonna be. Because I think churches are in a kind of place, what is what is church, anyways, today? I mean, most people don't find themselves needing a place like this, A, because for a lot of different reasons. Church has a different purpose.

SPEAKER_01 4:50

Yeah, it's it's it's been shifted. The meaning of it has definitely changed from when I was born in the 90s, late 90s, and now to where I'm looking at my brother and my cousins, and I'm like, yeah, this is a lot of different things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:05

And a lot of that's because people are like, we're not dealing with that bullshit no more. Yeah. A lot of been a church, a lot of church hurt, a lot of church hard. But this church has been a progressive church for pretty much its entire existence. What do you say makes this different, this church different? I think it has, A, not to sound like a broken record, but arts being as a focus, I think in general just creates a different dynamic and atmosphere.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 5:31

Uh, it brings people together in a way art and music does, that allows some of those tensions and barrier points go away. When you're singing together, people don't really care about whether you're gay or straight, black or white, it's about notes and harmony and music and listening to each other. You're just connecting. Connecting. Connecting. And I think a church that has art lean in differently, they listen different, they connect different. And I think that has been, that is a thing that runs through this church. I say all the time, we are a love-centered, justice-seeking church. This church has always been someone, not just when justice needs to happen, they're seeking it. How do we be, how do we be out there in the streets? And that has just kind of been a way, kind of brought people here. That that's kind of what is unique to a lot of different kinds of churches that are out there.

SPEAKER_01 6:20

Yeah, ways. Because some are still in those old ways of winter. Oh, very much so. So, and dove deeper into it now. So to have a spot where actual creativity is the spot where you connect and you just see and connect and keep connecting through a spiritual and holistic way is definitely that is definitely.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

My goal has always been when I moved, I moved here from New York City about three years ago to come to the Isle of School of Theology. Familiar with that extremely progressive liberal uh uh seminary here, right out uh on adjacent to DU's campus. And um my whole goal has been about how do we reclaim and reimagine Christian faith in church. How do we the idea that we do not have to, you do not have to believe in your grandmother's God. That is true. That is so true. You just don't have to.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

That is so true.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

In the Jewish faith, they say every generation has to renegotiate their relationship with God. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 7:25

We don't really do that in the Christian faith, but we think But this he's the same as as when grandma was growing up. And if he if we don't live that way, as grandma was growing up, then we're all sinners, right?

SPEAKER_02 7:37

No, that was for your grandma. Times change. God changes, yes, the energy changes, the frequency changes, and what's needed for the time. And so I'm shocked sometimes to think about a lot of folks don't think progressive churches like this exist. I I sometimes that's a little shocking to me because I've just spent my life in churches that are like this. Never, I just would never think about going to a church. Oh, yeah. Part of it is when you were really young, I grew up in a small rural community in Ohio. Yeah. So when you know you're gay or different very early, you're already doing things in your mind to figure out. That don't sound right, that can't be right. Yeah. I don't believe that. So I just decided very early in my life, I am never gonna sit in a church and someone tell a bee that I am so I'm horrible.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

That is crazy. That is true. Yes, and they send in like right when they leave. Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:37

Well, that that too. That too. You can't you can't call somebody and then you do it like let those without sin cast the first stone. I just don't, I never believed in a God like that. Nor do I would why would we have a God that would create his creations to be and then hate his creations? That just sounds silly to me. So I just never bought into that. Yeah. And would never sit in a church like that. But I recognize most people, that may be their experience with church. That's like even this whole basement thing that started downstairs. When I met Q, and it was just like, a lot of folks are just like, we do not want to be at a church. But why are we going to a church? This is not gonna work. And I was just like, come try this place out. This is not like any other thing. This is not your grandma's church. This don't have to be. This could be whatever you want it to be. It's your church.

SPEAKER_01 9:26

So it's not like any other open mic. It's like an open mic where you feel the respect, right? When you walk in, like, all right, yeah, cool. They're here to see who's on stage. They're here to support an artist.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

And I mean it when I say like, this is where you practice, you don't start loving. You better not get into a thing and figure out how to love. You better practice love. We need to Bell Hook said we don't have love schools. That's why it's hard to teach people. We think love is a natural, intuitive thing. Uh no, no, no, no. It's gotta be practical. It's hard and hard work and hard to do. You gotta practice love. Things like downstairs is where we practice love. Practice how you talk to people, practice how we engage with people, practice how we disagree with people. What does love look like showing up? Yeah, that is paying for somebody's meal. That is paying for somebody's rent. That is this is what we're living in in this in this world. I people think we're we're the world is falling apart. I'm like, thanks be to God. Finally, this world is falling away.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yeah, because once it falls away, you're gonna see how strong the love is. That is exactly how strong. Who's around you that's really around you, who's really loves you, you know? Who loves you? How do they love you? You can't find that in comfort all the time. It's hard to find it. You're gonna find people that have that fake love a lot in comfort. It's about at the end when the rubber meets the road, when you need people, love is action.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

That's about the show.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

Like you get that flat tire to call that homie that you always town.

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Who's really like, nah, brother, I'm not ready. That and that should tell, we that should tell us something. Yeah. And in these moments invite people, maybe you're not the best lover. You can become a better lover.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Let's figure out how to become a better lover. That's the road that I'm on. Yeah. I thought I was a good lover until I found out I have a lot more work to do. To do. So yeah, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

And that's not an indictment, that's an invitation for the city. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

So I'm like, all right.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

I thought, oh, oh. I'm not? I'm not.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Well, how can I be?

SPEAKER_02 11:23

How can I be? Yeah, right. And that only comes in community. You gotta be outside of yourself. There gotta be someone else to help us see that. That's fine. So we hope Cameron is that kind of place where we're learning how to love better and how to love more.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

And and nine months that I've been here, I haven't been upstairs, but definitely this is a this is a nice spot. Oh, you gotta come. I've seen the basement, I've seen up here now. Yeah, this is a nice spot. You gotta come. But the uh what I like the music classes they have before, yeah, yeah. I got here early just to see what was going on there. But it it's a kids, music, there's music teacher upstairs that had classes. Everything that I hear about it too, yeah, yeah. It's nice, it's a cool spot.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

This is you know, and it's not even I am a steward in a long group of people that I've gotten to be. I count it a privilege to be here to do these kind of things, to get to be a part of this history 130 years. I get to just do my part to keep this link together as long as I'm here.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

So it's exciting to me. So what would you tell somebody who is spiritual but on a spiritual journey? Not really religious, but on a spiritual journey.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

I don't know if I'm religious. We're all on the spiritual, we are all spiritual beings. Religious guidance. Yeah, it just I tell people all the time, I do not care what you believe. Yeah, you come here, I don't care who you love, what you believe, who you struggle, what you struggle to believe, doesn't matter. We are all merely on this journey together. I'm walking alongside people just to figure it out just like everyone else. So there are churches, yes, where you need to be religious to go. Cameron is not one of them churches. And I think you can find, I am a seeker. As much as I am tragically Methodist and a pastor, I'm a seeker of knowledge. I'm someone that knows that if you believe in God, that God is not through speaking, however that is, or that energy that is there is always virgin, it's always new every time we encounter it. So I say, go seek it out, seek out Cameron. Come Cameron. If you come to Cameron, this is not a plug to get people to come to Cameron either. Because, you know, I don't really care. You know, when I say that, I'm like, people that are gonna come here are gonna come here. But I'm saying, yeah, you don't have to be religious. I don't care what you know about the Bible. I don't care. That does not matter to me at all. It is about where your heart is. Yeah, that we are all on this spiritual journey. We are souls with bodies, not bodies with souls. So we have to remember that, and I I remember that all the time. That was a bar. Yeah, but that is that is the truth.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Yeah, that's the truth.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

Do I need to prove that in the Bible? I don't care if the Bible doesn't say that at all. I know that to be fact. This is technology. These bodies are technologies that house this ancient, uh, all-powerful, all-knowing, god-like energy forces within it. We're just in a different body. That's it. That's it. From the same source. Yeah. From the same thing. We don't like to talk that, especially in Christianity, it gets a little funny. But who's gonna stop me from talking it? So it's like we are gods. We are gods. We are from the same exact source. We are, and we are here in this very dense world for a short period, this school called Earth. And we need a technology to have us be here. That is our bodies. But we should not forget, you know, the there's a for folks born in the 70s, is a thing called the Course in Miracles. Everyone should look at this. Course in Miracles. And the Course in Miracles says all of life's disease and dis-ease is that we have moved far away from or forgotten who we originally are. Our one true task is to remember, to reclaim who we originally are. And for some reason, we forget we are the source from the source when we come into this dense world. Maybe we need to forget. But our task is to remember. And spaces like camera are help us to remember who we are. And that we are, however you want to put it in Christian language, we are air, we are divine heirs, if you want to put it in Christian language. Or we are from that same source. We are stardust, whatever you, whatever you want to say. We are from that same, and when we align with that energy, that frequency of life, if all matter. I'm a big science of the mind kind of person, so I'm big science. It is, this is, we're no different than this chair and all of that. It is the it is trying to get in that frequency, to remember what that frequency is, tuning in to that. And when that happens, our lives open up. Yeah, that's what Cameron's about.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

That's what church should be about. We are just humans. We need to find the uh the Lord to guide us, because we are just humans. There's only so much we can do. That's it. And we have to realize there's only so much we can do.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

And we don't have to do it alright. We can ask for help, we can tap into that. And if that ask of help is your understanding of that is God the Father in heaven, that is fine if that's the way what you construct that. Or tapping into that divine is to that frequency. We're finding that, hearing that, honing that in. That's that's what I'm about in this as a pastor. How do we live our best lives here? How do we, how you sound like a community leader and a pastor, though.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Just the way you speak and just the way you're doing it.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

Yeah, well, I guess it's all one and the same, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

It's all what eco.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

A pastor runs a church. Yes. I feel like you're trying to run a community. Am I trying to run a community? Like you sound like you're a child. I'm trying to be on a move of the epoch. That is a pastor.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

Well, my community is Cameron at this moment in time. But I my goal is I think this is a message that goes beyond these pews.

SPEAKER_01 17:20

Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, I mean that's all the that's all respect too, because like there's people that just speak like a pastor. Yeah, yeah. And they just have that speak. But if you have that, I can tell you have that, but you have that community leader behind you.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Well, one of the things that I I said earlier, I'm tragically Methodist. Part of Methodist theology is not just about those pastors talk about personal piety. How do we become good people so we can go to heaven? Well, that's ridiculous. We in Methodism believe in social holiness. That our job, by becoming better people, our community becomes better. There is no holiness without social holiness. There is not there is no personal holiness while people rot in prison. That's ridiculous. It should draw us to be better people, to be better communities. What good is Cameron to be a good church if right outside its doors is falling to pieces? That doesn't make no sense to me. You know, so maybe I am, you know, part of it is because I am queer, caught up because of I'm black. Maybe that's why all you it sounds differently, maybe than other people. Yeah, to be a pastor is to be concerned with, I say often, I not only serve Cameron Church, but the Platte Park neighborhood. Yeah. Whether they come to this, I don't care whether you come to Cameron or not, or if you're a member of Cameron, we I serve, I want to be the pastor of this entire community.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

I'm just as concerned whether you come here or not. The people that are downstairs at the basement, I tell everyone, I don't care if they never come to Sunday morning or not. To me, this is another service. And I'm concerned about their well-being. I want to, they I consider them, I'm their pastor just like everybody else.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

They see you still giving them your energy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

Yeah. So I I mean that's how I think about that. The people that are in this building are in this building. But it's about, I think about all the people who aren't, who need a message, who need encouragement.

SPEAKER_01 19:17

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

That's true. That's true. That's cool, man. That's cool.

SPEAKER_02 19:22

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Shout out the church where it's located. Okay. And roll promo on it.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Cameron Church. We're located on the corner of Iowa and Pearl Street in the right at the Dead Center in the Pearl Street Business District, in the Platte Park neighborhood. Join us. We have services at 9 a.m. I know it's early. 9 a.m. But they have the largest farmers market in all the city right out here every Sunday. Right here in Plant. If you have not been to the farmers market, come see us at 9. It'll be 10 o'clock in a month, but at 9 o'clock right now, and then go to the farmers market. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Coffee First Podcast. Do what you need, new effort every day. One step closer, heal yourself spiritually, holistically, through creativity, make it happen.